Today we’re talking with Michelle Jackson. She shares what she calls her “messy money story” of when she found herself supporting her and my mom after her mom lost her job. At that time, Michelle was in graduate school, working at Starbucks earning $9 an hour and got in loads of debt. Now, they both own properties, Michelle has become an entrepreneur, and she’s working her way through an outrageous amount of debt. Michelle runs a personal finance website and podcast called “Michelle is Money Hungry,” she’s the author of a personal finance book called, Unsexy: A Savage AF Book About Money, and teaches others how to get out of their debt.
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If you prefer to read, here’s a transcript of the interview!
Kathy: 00:00 Michelle, before we dive into what it is you’re doing today and how you’re helping others, let’s get back to the topic of your blog and podcast. Michelle Is Money Hungry and your own personal journey with money and finances. You wrote something very interesting to me. You said. I found myself supporting myself and my mom after she lost her job. I was in graduate school and working at Starbucks earning $9 an hour, including tips. Now we both own properties. I’m working my way through an outrageous amount of debt and I work for myself. Can you set the scene for us of what was happening in your life at that time and what led to that situation?
Michelle: 00:41 Well, I feel like I need to go back before that kind of back in time before that even happened, before my mom’s job loss happened and um, my parents divorced when I was really young when I was about seven years old. And my first memories of money, were always very negative that we didn’t have enough, that it was always a scramble and, and, and to a certain degree that was the case because when women divorce, typically their income goes down drastically. A lot of people are bankrupted because of that. Um, my dad actually filed for bankruptcy when my parents divorced, so my mom went from being a stay at home mom to having to support our little family of two. And if there are those of you supporting kids and have little people in your lives, be aware that we do notice the money messages that you send.
Michelle: 01:38 And so one of the things that happened was that I learned that money was a scary, stressful thing. And, and this is no disrespect to my mom, it was a scary, scary thing for her and she never had conversations with her parents about money and she was estranged from her family. So it kind of exacerbated the situation. So I learned growing up that you work really hard and your ethical person and that’s, that was what would move you ahead in life. Okay. I never had conversations with my mom about savings probably because really she wasn’t making a lot and so saving wasn’t really top of mind. It was surviving and so it was just a very interesting money mindset to have and and quite honestly, most people don’t even talk in terms of money mindsets, but this is what I had going into this situation where my mom lost her job.
Michelle: 02:33 So by the time my mom had lost her job, I had horrible spending habits. I had good work habits, but I had horrible spending habits. I was, you know, when I was an Undergrad, I did what, what most undergrads doing and I got my first credit card and for a lot of people it might be a tool that they can really use, but I had these other bad habits so it wasn’t a tool that I should be using. To this day, a credit card is not a tool for me, personally. I like to joke that when I get a credit card, it’s the same as going to Target. Basically, you were like, you know what, I’m going to go to Target and I’m going to get some thank you notes and some toilet paper and I’ll be right back out. And by the time I leave three hours later after having like a blackout and then I have like a whole new wardrobe, a whole new set of furniture, you know, it’s just not for me.
Michelle: 03:29 So I actually don’t go to Target anymore. I’m only allowed to order online if I get anything and I don’t have credit cards. So, um, I joke, but I had credit card debt, I just, it was just a mess. And so my mom, who had a long history of always working, she, she is a person who has always worked since she was a preteen really, like she always had to work and so she lost her job and at the time we were thinking that, you know, she would replace it pretty quickly because there was a long period of time when that was the case. And what we didn’t realize was that that was changing. And after about, I want to say maybe it was like almost eight months, it was a while. My mom was like, you know, I’m really worried I can’t find a job and this is bad.
Michelle: 04:19 And so I was like, well, we’ll have to live together. I didn’t have a big place for us to be living together. It was horribly stressful, but for me it was the right thing to do.
Kathy: 04:29 And Michelle, how long did you guys live together?
Michelle: 04:32 Um, it was probably two and a half to three years. It was a while, like the amount of stress from that situation. It’s really strange when people want me to reflect on exact, like exact numbers of how much I owed at that time and it exact amount of time we were together and all that. The amount of stress at that time makes it almost a fuzzy memory. I hate to say it that way because it was just so stressful because I was very, very frightened. I was like, what if we’re homeless? What am I going to do? I have to support two people that have all these other bills.
Michelle: 05:06 I’m getting calls all the time. I can’t even manage the money that I have. I don’t know what to do. And so it was just a very frightening, humbling, scary situation to find myself in. And one of the things that happened during that time, which was really interesting was there was a family living on the first floor of the building we were living in and we were living in Boulder, Colorado. It’s one of the richest towns in the United States. I grew up in this town. Not Saying I ever had money. My mom was a student, so we lived in student housing, but it was really interesting because we’re going through this crazy situation in this really rich place with beauty all around. Like if anyone’s ever been to Boulder, you know what I’m talking about. And there was a family living on the first floor in the building we were in and they were a family of immigrants from Libya.
Michelle: 05:58 I’ll never forget this. And I always was really puzzled. I’m like, how many people were living in, in this space? Because it was basically like a studio, a beautiful one, but a studio. And we found out that there were like probably 12 people living in that studio. Oh my gosh. And you would never, including kids like little kids, and you never would have known because they were so quiet and they were so generous. So they would like to speak with us and give us, you know, food and, and put things in perspective because life was sucky. But I didn’t have 12 people up in my studio, you know. Things were hard, but I did not have 12 people including children and, and, and now I think what they did was they would, maybe some people were working at night so they didn’t have to sleep in the space at that time and they had pallets.
Michelle: 06:54 But I mean they were, they were working. And so finally things started to come together and my mom was able to get another job and. But the damage in terms of emotions and stress and just self esteem was kind of there. Like it’s hard to. It’s hard to date in a situation like that. It’s just you can’t be present for anything other than let’s get out of this situation. And even in that situation, it’s hard to be present because you just want to check out. So unfortunately my problems with money continued because what I didn’t realize at the time was I had this whole financial script that I had in my head that I kinda had to unlearn. And I’m still in that process of unlearning a lot of things. I’m kind of, I feel pretty good about everything. I’m at the point where I’m really working on under earning like the whole idea that it’s okay for me to earn a lot of money and it’s okay for me to feel comfortable wanting to be very wealthy and it’s okay for me to want to have control and power over my financial life.
Michelle: 08:07 But it’s been a long period of learning and adjusting and breaking bad habits. And it’s, it’s, it’s been crazy. I never knew how much money affected my life until it affected my life. Right. And most people, you know, it could be that maybe you have too much money and you have no idea how it changes what you do. I’d like to have that experience. I’ll, I’ll get back in touch with you when that happens. That’s a when not an if.
Kathy: 08:37 That would probably be a brand new blog and podcast topic for you,
Michelle: 08:40 You, you… Totally. But it’s funny because I’ve always had the other experience, so it’s interesting for me now because I’m at this middle point in my financial journey and fortunately for me, I discovered a community. I’ve discovered a community that helped me work through a lot of this stuff because one, I discovered I wasn’t the only person out there dealing with this crap.
Kathy: 09:05 Right. Oh Gosh, yes. There’s so many people. Let me ask you this, Michelle. Going back to when you were saying the money issues, the debt encompassed all of your life and so many other ways that you didn’t expect. I mean, I remember reading in your blog that you wrote back in June 2017, you wrote that when you first started blogging about money, you were depressed, suffering, anxiety attacks. You broke a tooth because you were clenching your teeth at night.
Michelle: 09:34 Oh yeah.
Kathy: 09:34 You gained 50 to 60 pounds and you were losing your hair and you’re suffering from migraines. I mean, all that stress. Do you direct that towards having that debt?
Michelle: 09:46 Well, I mean, you have to understand when you have debt like that, you are also getting calls. You’re getting threatened. So it wasn’t, that was directing it at myself. I was getting threatened basically by creditors and, and, and, you know, they get aggressive. I had a, I was stressed because I also was working a job that I had wanted to quit five years before, um, but then the recession hit, so I had a great job, but most people want to work their job for like five years at the most and then change out of it. And so at the time that I wanted to change my job, I had a weird feeling. I was like, I need to stay in this job. And it was so crazy because the recession hit right around that time. So it was really good that I opted to do that. So, um, I had debt, I had that. Oh my God. So it was just crazy. It was just hell. It was hell. So it just was a lot of things that built up and I was just exhausted. And so, yeah,
Kathy: 10:48 Right. Michelle, what would you say was the hardest or most challenging memory for you or your mom during that time?
Michelle: 10:56 When we were living together, really in the depths of, of like just the trenches. I wasn’t sure if we would be able to get out like, of this mess. I really wasn’t sure. You know, again, my mom was estrange and continues to be estranged from her family. I’m close with my dad’s family, but I’m not, I’m not close with him. And so it’s just like, you know, they, they may not have wanted to help my, my mom, maybe they would have helped. They would’ve helped me, but they probably wouldn’t have helped my mom or I’m not sure. Maybe maybe they would have, but, but it’s a tricky situation because those two met in the third grade. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it was weird. Yeah. Um, so it, it, it just, there’s a moment where you just think, will this ever end?
Kathy: 11:44 So do you mean to say that you felt like your mom and you were at risk of being homeless at that time?
Michelle: 11:50 I that was a very real issue, I mean if you’re making $9 an hour and you’re supporting two people, that’s not enough money, period. So, so I had debts, I had people calling, I had problems and I was only making $9 an hour and I was trying to get that degree so that I could get a professional job. And at the time that this was happening, it was a recession in the state. So when I finally graduated from my master’s program, we were in a recession, so it took about a year I think to actually find a job. And when I found the job, when I was in the running for the position that I ended up getting, the one that I ended up working for 10 years, it took four months to even get hired for that job. Oh my gosh. And then when I got hired for the job, it wasn’t even a full time job.
Michelle: 12:38 It was four days a week. So I. it’s like, it was like I have to take this job. It’s a good one. It’s pretty secure and it ended up becoming a full time job, but we were very much at risk and so when people talk about like affordable wage and all that stuff, I’m like, I totally know what they’re talking about because it, it’s very difficult for people to live and we were paying like nothing. I was paying very little for my studio and all that kind of stuff. But expenses come up, health things come up. You have to pay for food, you have to pay for transportation. Fortunately we were in Boulder so you could walk around so you didn’t need to pay for transportation and I had a um, a bus pass so I could go to my school in Denver because I was out.
Michelle: 13:25 That was the other thing. I was commuting to graduate school in Denver, so it was just a lot of stuff. So when you have that many things coming at you and not enough money, it’s a very real possibility that you’re, you know, you could be homeless.
Kathy: 13:41 Absolutely. So what helped you get through it? Well, was there anything significant that you recall?
Michelle: 13:49 No, I wish I could say that there was some amazing thing that occurred and um, unfortunately no, in my case. It just, and I hate that this is the answer to be honest. I’m going to be honest, I hate that this is my answer because it kind of sucks. I was like, there’s no other option but to get through this and sometimes it was like if I, if I take my foot off the gas, all hell’s gonna break loose. And the unfortunate thing about an answer like that is that also came with a price.
Michelle: 14:26 So I’m like working, working, working, working, working, and just try my best and just trying to get through this. But that affected my mental health. That affected my physical health, that affected my self esteem. But it was like there’s, there’s only so many choices you have. Right? Right. So for me it was like either I’m going to get through this or are we going to be homeless. And that’s not an option.
Kathy: 14:49 That’s not an option. So Michelle, how did you begin your financial education as far as getting yourself out of debt?
Michelle: 14:58 Well, the funny thing about me, him and finances is originally I wanted to get a degree in economics.
Kathy: 15:07 No way, really?
Michelle: 15:07 I really did. It’s so strange. Um, and at the time when I went to college I was like, yeah, I really like 17 year old Michelle because I graduated when I was 17.
Michelle: 15:19 It was like I would love to get an economics degree. Like I don’t know why I liked it. And I got teased and they’re like, why are you getting an economics? It’s only for old white guys. And this was, like, white guy saying it. It wasn’t like, you know, black people saying it. It was like other, other white guys. I was like, oh, it’s, I got teased a little bit and so I decided to get a poly sci agree, political science. But I always liked money because money, when you think about it, it’s, it’s, it’s the thing that drives soap operas when you watched them on TV, politics, like it’s so interesting. So I always liked it and so I always had an interest in. I always kind of read personal finance books, but then finally I was like, I’m sick of this.
Michelle: 16:02 I gotta, I gotta figure something out. I just am so fed up. And so I just started really reading books about money and at that time in about 2010, 2011, I started reading personal finance blogs and I just loved them. I love that there were other people who were black, white, green, whatever, and they were helping their parents. I didn’t know that. Like it felt like I was the only one. I didn’t, I had no idea. Um, I, I discovered that there were people who helped their siblings out. I discovered that there were people who had never had debt and that, that they had saved a lot and I’d never had conversation about saving. I had discovered blog posts where people were like, I paid off $100,000 in debt and this is how I did it. And it really sucked, but I got it done and it took years and it’s done.
Michelle: 16:54 And so I just became totally enthralled, enamored, and excited about the world of personal finance. And as luck would have it, all of a sudden there was a conference for it called FinCon and I was like, Whoa, that like all my, my gurus are going to be there, not even gurus. All of my people that I fan girl about are going to be there. And it was random because they discovered that they were going to have their second conference in Denver, Colorado. And I lived in Denver at the time and I discovered it two weeks before they were going to have the actual conference and it was only a hundred dollars. Now that was $100 of money I needed, but I was like, it’s only $100 and they’re going to have food.
Michelle: 17:38 So it was like, it’s only $100 they’re going to have food and I can walk from my house to this thing. So I went and I was like, I never knew it would change my life. Like I just, they were so positive. And it’s funny because as you can tell from this interview, I’m very extroverted. I’m a talker, but I was so fan girled out. I was very quiet that year, like no one knew that I was really there because I was just so like, oh my God, my idols are here. They paid off all their debt and they saved and and it’s just hilarious how much I love these people and I continued to attend because I had such a mess. I knew that it was gonna take me a while, not only just to, to to do logistically to do this, to pay off the debt.
Michelle: 18:24 I’m still paying off the debt. I have about probably two more years, but I, I instinctively knew that, that I had a lot of mindset issues, a money mindset, issues that I had to work through.
Kathy: 18:38 Well, let’s, let’s talk about that. You had mentioned this in other interviews and blog posts and you talk about money blockages. Can you explain what you mean?
Michelle: 18:48 Well, I think that a lot of people have no idea that some of the mistakes they’re making with money isn’t anything other than the way they think about money because money is a tool, right? But I think a lot of us attach emotions to your money worth, to your money self worth, if you, if you know what I mean. And really it is a tool that you spend some energy creating so you can get other things. That’s it. That’s all it is.
Michelle: 19:20 And if you are afraid to make too much money, it could be because you come from a tradition in your family where you’re told that having too much wealth is, is greed. Sure. It’s equivalent to greed and that that’s not good. Yeah. And it’s actually a big deal. I have a very religious relatives and so, um, I don’t think that they, they, that’s the case for them and the way that they’ve spoken with me. But I do feel like as women of color, in terms of the people in my family, they’ve been in a lot of jobs that are of service to others, like in social work, teaching, jobs where they’re helping others where you’re not getting paid a lot. So even myself, I was an administrator at a university and I was helping people and I made okay money and that was… And I was working 60, 70 hours a week, including the commute and sometimes I would feel guilty being mad because I was like, I should be getting paid more for this crap.
Michelle: 20:24 Like what the hell? Like this is crazy.
Kathy: 20:28 So was that your mindset blockage too that if you had a lot of money you would be greedy?
Michelle: 20:34 Not, I mean for me, I think it wasn’t so much that as I was afraid to own up to the fact that I wanted to make more. So I don’t think that I’ve felt it was greedy. I just felt like shy about admitting that I wanted to earn more. So there’s a reason. So my blog used to be called something completely different and last year I changed it to Michelle Is Money Hungry on purpose to really state the fact that I wanted to earn life changing money. And it wasn’t a stated to the world, it was to state it to the world and most importantly to myself. Now, have I made that life changing money quite yet? Uh, you know, at, at this point, no, but I believe that it’s okay to want that because with more money I can fund scholarships, I can finish my Dang, you know, seven year debt repayment journey because it’s going to be about seven years.
Michelle: 21:28 I can, uh, help retire my mom. I can do. There are things that I can do with more money. And I think once I understood that really all you’re doing is growing your wealth so you can do these other things like giving a job to the money. Um, so that doesn’t feel weird. So my job for my money isn’t so that I could have like a Lamborghini. My job is so I can like buy more real estate in the city of Denver. I would love to have more real estate. Yeah. Um, I would like to retire my mom. Like I said, I would like to. I’m, you know, I want to have kids so I haven’t met my husband yet. He is hiking, I think. So, um, I need money for our future wedding. Absolutely. What if I need help getting pregnant or needing to adopt, I need money for that for little people. So I think when you, when you reframe why you want to earn more money, it doesn’t feel dirty or weird or right. And so that’s what I’ve done. Um, and so I feel great about it. I’m like, I know why I want to earn money. Do you, do you know why you want to earn more money?
Kathy: 22:35 That’s huge that you know your why because that really does drive you and it gives you permission. Okay. I give myself permission to earn a lot of money. You mentioned something interesting. You said you noticed moments when you sabotaged yourself. Oh yeah. What did you do to sabotage yourself? Can you give an example?
Michelle: 22:55 There were moments where I could have really been in front of people in a different way than I am now and that could have been very lucrative, but maybe I got nervous. So sometimes like you get imposter syndrome and you’re like, who? Who are you to listen to me about this thing? So like what I do now and some of the products and services I sell, I have to spend some time really looking at an and substantiating to myself why I’m qualified to do the things that I’m saying I’m qualified to do. Right. You know. And that’s a very interesting experience because before I did that, I would let people pay me too little. And that’s a big thing for a lot of people. And in fact I’m gonna give you a story. This is a good example. I was looking for business opportunities. I was, I was considering myself as a self employed person.
Michelle: 23:48 So I was doing like social media, editing things, stuff like that. And I had the opportunity to edit a book and I’ll never forget this because I cannot believe I allowed myself to deal to be in this situation. So I needed the money, but I so under negotiated with this book that by the time I got it, it was a book. It wasn’t, it was a legit book with, with I can’t even believe that I accepted this project. And I was like, well, yeah, because I didn’t ask the questions I should have. I didn’t ask. How big is this book? I didn’t, I didn’t ask. Um, the scope of work. I didn’t, I should have received thousands of dollars to do this project. Thousands. I accepted $100. Oh my gosh. And, and the funny thing is I, I just. And then I felt guilty. One, it took me a while to get it done because it was, it was a book, it was a technical book.
Michelle: 24:52 It wasn’t even just a book. It was a technical book. And I’ll never forget it because this person who, who contracted me to do this was in the personal finance community. And to this day I think this person is like, she’s such a fool. I’m so glad I got my money’s worth with her because she said yes to that and I will never, ever, ever do that again. And, and so as I’ve worked for myself and grown my business and asserted myself, these are things I don’t ever want to experience again. Ever. And I laugh at that because it was just so bad. This was so bad. It was ridiculous. I was like, you, he could have hired someone quite frankly from India. Uh, and, and it, it’s not. People are notorious for hiring people from like Indonesia, India, the Philippines, and they’re charging like a fraction of what a US worker, which would charge.
Michelle: 25:48 They would have charged more than what I asked him for, for that project. I’m serious.
Kathy: 25:52 Well, you know, what lessons like that sometimes I think are really valuable because you will never, ever let that happen to you again.
Michelle: 26:01 You know, No, I won’t. And so it’s funny to tell this story now, but I just shake my head when I think about it. I’m just like, oh my goodness, I can’t even believe I would accept that for myself and it. And it said a lot about just feeling. I think I felt a bit desperate and, and I just, again, I didn’t assert my worth to myself first and foremost, most and to other people. So it’s been a very long experience in terms of just learning to assert myself and say to myself, it’s okay to want more and know you should not say yes to everything and saying no is a very powerful experience.
Michelle: 26:49 And right now I’m writing a book, my first book and it’s called Unsexy: A Savage AF Book About Money and basically it’s, it’s talking about being in the middle of a personal finance journey and how. And actually this interview is very timely because I think for a lot of people who are dealing with a lot of debt repayment, like they’re focusing on debt repayment or they’re dealing with money related issues or just things are going on and they’re making all this progress. There’s this whole thing you could do a step forward and sometimes you end up with two steps back. Yeah. So like right now I’m in the two steps back and I’m about to do the step forward again. And it’s been a very frustrating experience because I’ve changed all my habits. I’ve done like I. it’s incredible like where I’m at mentally. And that’s why I was talking about the, you know, really focusing on, on earning more money and money mindset and my story is just so messy and, and real and I feel like very relatable in a way that sometimes the stories that we read online aren’t.
Michelle: 27:57 So when, when you’re online, you’ll see the end result all the time. You’ll see the, I pay $50,000 in seven months and I’m debt free, right? You don’t hear about month number three in that seven month journey where they’re like, you know, what, I really want to quit or this thing happened and I got knocked off my trajectory. But, um, it’s like that kind of stuff happens, I think right when you’re about to have a breakthrough. So, so like for me, like it was important to share that part of the journey because I think that people want to make changing your financial life to be a sexy thing. And it can be a very messy, scary, empowering, exciting, uh, just, it’s all over the place. It’s like a very intense experience. And some of these stories that we’re seeing don’t really pull the, the, I don’t know how like the covers off of the actual story, you know what I mean?
Michelle: 29:04 Like you just, it’s just so clean. And I’m like, that’s not how it works.
Kathy: 29:08 It’s not so tidy.
Michelle: 29:10 Yeah.
Kathy: 29:10 Well let’s talk about some of the nitty gritty things that you share. A couple of years ago you had a great podcast episode where you talked about seven money mindset practices you use. Do you remember that?
Michelle: 29:23 I remember that episode, but I may, may have changed some of them on money mindset stuff, so…
Kathy: 29:28 That’s okay. I was wondering if you could share maybe your favorite top two mindset practices that you’d like to share.
Michelle: 29:35 Well, one of the things I do to this day is I have a money journal and what I do is I will look at my money every single day and nothing crazy. But the reason why I do that is because before I was afraid to always look at my accounts because sometimes they would be overdrawn.
Michelle: 29:57 Especially during that time when everything was going wrong, I was just always afraid like what is going to happen next? Right. And so I look at the money, I see where I’m at. Um, a lot of times, uh, I need to, I used to be on mint.com. I need to, I am switching to personal capital because I think it’s a little better for 2018. I feel like it’s more up to date and it’s just a really great way to see your net worth. Right? Right. So when I, when I’m looking at my different accounts, I see what’s coming in, what’s coming out. I now know what my habits are, I know I’m like, what is happening? And then if something is going weird, I can figure out like as I journal, like how do I feel today? What’s going on? Why did I spend that way?
Michelle: 30:47 Because I’ve been blogging about money for so long. I’ve learned all these ways to economize without taking away the quality of life that I was purchasing before on debt. So I have this same exact quality of life, but I’m not using debt for any of it. So it’s awesome. It’s the best thing ever. And I, I wish everyone knew that you could still get like if you want Kate Spade purses, like I get that kind of stuff on thredup.com. As a blogger I was able to share my affiliate link and people if they signed up for, to shop on thredup.com. I earned credits, um. For groceries, I found an APP that helped me save money. But also if other people signed up with the APP, I earned money. So now my grocery bills are cheaper. Denver has tons of amazing free things.
Michelle: 31:41 In fact, I just got a notice for a, there’s going to be like this huge festival and they’re like, oh, we’re having this free huge thing and free food and this and that. The other. I’m like, are you kidding me? So it’s for me, I’m really lucky because I live in a city that’s big enough that I always have stuff I can do for free. That actually feeds me. And uh, I’ve learned to kind of add a lot of stuff into my life in terms of entertainment, so I just acknowledged that there are certain things I don’t want to live without, but how I get, I bring them into my life is very different than before. I’m not going to charge it, I’m paying cash and then I’m done. And then I keep on rolling.
Kathy: 32:24 That makes a lot a lot of sense. Just focused on the things that you really want and let everything else slide.
Michelle: 32:31 Exactly.
Michelle: 32:32 Let’s talk about guilt because you had talked about that it took many years to stop blaming yourself or maybe your mom for being in that financial situation years ago. And I think a lot of people suffer from the feelings of guilt because of the financial situations they’re in.
Michelle: 32:53 Well, here’s the thing, people typically do the best they can with the information that they have. Right? So it would have been, I think, a different conversation if I’d had this huge financial education all throughout my life. And then I still made the same mistakes. I just didn’t have that. I had work hard, be ethical, be a good person, you know, so, so I’m very empathetic with a lot of people because I think that there are a lot of people in the same situation where they just don’t have a financial education. So if, if I can just let one person know, hey, I have walked in your shoes.
Michelle: 33:32 I know it’s really tempting to beat yourself up about all the things that happen, but you know what? Let it go. You did the best she could with what you knew.
Kathy: 33:41 That’s so true. Just give yourself a break and start from today.
Michelle: 33:45 Yeah, because the other thing that I learned, which is part of the reason why I wanted to come on the show too was say you’ve had all these problems with your money and today you’re like, you know what? Today’s the start the first day of the rest of my life like I’m done now. Will it be easy to change what is going on? Like to stop the snowball from rolling down? No, it won’t be easy like people want it to be easy. It will not be easy. It will be really hard as hell. Yes, pardon my French. It’s going to be hard.
Michelle: 34:18 But the fact is once you decide that you’re going to change things, you will start taking actions that will change the trajectory. Yes. And then as you take those actions, you know, like I said, I, I had a back to steps moment for the past year, just, it just was one of those things and it was so frustrating and then the summer I was like, nope, this is not working. And I had to just be nice to myself and be like, sometimes these things can happen. This really sucks, this really sucks and I’m just keep on trucking. Sure. You know, it’s just one of those things like life doesn’t just move in a straight path. It meanders. and what can I learn from this? And once you learn the lesson that you need to learn from whatever situation you’re in, you keep on trucking. So yeah, that’s, that’s what what you have to do, but you have to decide.
Michelle: 35:14 Once you decide that, you know what, this isn’t working for me anymore. I’m sick of it. I’m changing whatever it is that’s not working. You will each day hopefully take small actions that will move you towards the results that you want. So for me, my goal has always been to grow my passive income and so I was like, if I want this to happen, I need to change some of the things I’m doing to facilitate this. So I am actually, this Monday I will be publishing a romance novel. I know it’s Hilarious, but I know, I know. It’s hilarious. So I have a romance novel series that I was like, I was always tossing around this idea of romance novels. Right? And I noticed that I loved reading them on Amazon, kindle direct. Love it. I love it, love it, love it. I read a snippet everyday for sure and I noticed how I was consuming them and I was like, you know, I’ve had these ideas, why don’t I just like write them and um, this is a separate thing from the stuff that I do, but it will create passive income. So I was like, I’m not traveling, let’s get it done. And so it will be done. And actually after we do the interview, I’m going to be contacting the person making the cover and then I will have it online on Monday. So there’s a point where you. And it’s hilarious that it’s romance novels. I totally agree.
Michelle: 36:48 And it’s under a pen name. It’s under a pen name. I’m not sharing it, so it’s under a pen name, but the personal finance books, same thing, like I’m going to sit down and write that book, right? Because I’ve been wanting to have a book published a lot of people in any kind of professional space. Having a published book is a very important thing. So after I get this romance novel going again, there will be six of them, but one a month I will begin working on my other book, my money book.
Kathy: 37:20 Well, good. Wow. Michelle, you’re ambitious. Okay. You have six romance novels coming out and your finance book.
Michelle: 37:28 Well, the romance novels are really fun to write. I’m just going to say that.
Kathy: 37:33 That’s great, Michelle. Yeah. Well you know what. It’s a complete departure to your regular life, so I think that’s good.
Michelle: 37:40 Yeah. Yeah.
Kathy: 37:42 Okay. Let me ask you this, based on all your experience, let’s say going back to college, what would you say was the most unexpected lesson you learned about yourself?
Michelle: 37:56 I think that I am. Again, I hate this answer. Okay. And I’ll tell you why after I give it that I’m stronger than I realize. I hate the answer though a little bit because I’m very nervous to tell people to focus on strength in that way because sometimes it can, we can focus on being strong to the detriment of self care. And so there’s this conversation about black women and the Super Woman Syndrome and I feel like it kind of touches on that a little bit. So yes, I’m glad I’m a strong person, but at the same time it would’ve been really nice to have allowed myself the time to care for myself so I could not break a tooth, a tooth because of stress and not have my hair.
Michelle: 38:47 Like my hair has not recovered from all that stress. I’m going to get some testing done to see if I have a hormone imbalance because of all that stress enough. Just keeping on, you know, um, I, I really think that when you’re dealing with a moment, like a moment in time, like I was, that just, it felt like it was going to be forever, that you need to focus so, so much on self care. So I’m surprised at how strong I was able to be, but at the same time, that’s not ideal because you’re a human being and there’s a point where you can break and your body will let you know. So like I said, my body was letting me know I was having anxiety attacks. I was gaining a lot of weight. I was a at this, forgive me for saying it this way, but I was Colorado fat.
Michelle: 39:43 So like Colorado fat is the equivalent. Like when you leave Colorado, you’re skinny, right? But for Colorado I was the biggest person in my circle of friends and they’re, they’re pretty slim people. Right? So it was one of those like you could, like, I always felt very self conscious and then when I would leave the state on trips or whatever, no one would understand. I was like, I live in the fittest state in the country, and so I, I hear what you’re saying, but I’ve gained like 65 pounds. I don’t care what state you live in, that’s a lot of weight, you know what I mean? And so, um, it just, it would’ve been nice to have cared for myself enough to, to allow myself to find a free yoga class or a free meditation app or you know, just certain things that in 2018 you could access.
Michelle: 40:34 So there are things now that can really help you while you’re working through a really intense situation like that. And I would strongly advise that you do. Um, I lost 35 pounds. I’m in the process of losing the other 30 pounds. Are things perfect? No. Are they as bad as they were before? Hell No. And that’s a wonderful thing.
Kathy: 40:59 Wow. You’ve accomplished so much. Well, Michelle, let’s have you share how people can get ahold of you. If somebody has questions about becoming debt free, wants to listen to your podcast or learn more about your coaching, how do they get ahold of you?
Michelle: 41:15 So I run a small closed facebook group specifically for people who are online entrepreneurs. It’s called The Unapologetically Money Hungry. The group is really primarily focused on all of the networking things that you need to know about in order to get to kind of connect your way to more money.
Michelle: 41:35 It’s very supportive, mellow, chill group of people. I’m in the process of growing that now. If you’re looking for debt related information or inspiration or just content related to money in general, I don’t just write about debt. I’m kind of transitioning more to talking about earning more money because you can’t out-frugal debt. There’s just a point where you just have to earn more money. And so I’m really, I’m talking about that more and that’s at my blog. MichelleisMoneyHungry.com as well as at my podcast. Michelle is Money Hungry and I have started a um, group coaching program called The Business Networking Accelerator and I am in the process of onboarding people for that. And so you’re very welcome to contact me. Again, it’s about networking your way to more money and just different things that people need to know about and you can email me at Michelleasmoneyhungry@gmail.com for that.
Kathy: 42:29 Okay, great. Thank you Michelle, for your time and sharing your story and not just your story with great is that you’re also in the midst of your story, so I’m looking forward to hearing what’s next and hopefully have you back so that way you can share your next story. Thank you so much, Michelle.
Michelle: 42:47 Thank you so much for having me and I just had. It was a pleasure being on the show.