Andrea Hall was a successful criminal defense attorney and a self-described “A-type” personality. Her goal was to become a mother and also was thinking of changing careers. But, all that came to a halt when she learned she had a brain tumor and needed emergency surgery. She told herself if she made it through the surgery, she knew without a doubt she truly had to make a change in her life. Fortunately, Andrea recovered and then became a Certified Equine Gestalt Coach. She now teams up with her horses to help her clients.
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If you prefer to read, here’s a transcript of the interview!
Kathy: So, we’re here with Andrea Hall, speaker, author, lawyer, and coach and Andrea has coauthored two recent books, one of them Touched by a Horse Equine Coaching Series, Volume Three, edited by Melissa Pierce, and also living your joy, creating a joy filled life edited by Joyce Graham. So Andrea, let’s first talk about your coaching. I understand you’re a certified equine gestalt coach. So reading up a little bit about this. I had no idea or even heard of this and I found it fascinating. Can you tell us a little bit about what it is and what you do?
Andrea: Sure. So basically my horses and I do personal and emotional work with individuals and couples. Everybody kind of has a different niche, that area that they work in. However, I work mostly with lawyers and other professionals and like I said, the couples. So basically I bring someone or someone comes to me for a session and first thing we do is get in the present moment and getting their body because that’s the one thing that the horses are really good at and do naturally is just be in the present moment. They have no judgment or no attachment to outcomes, and so they, uh, hold that space for the client and allow the client to get into that space, get back into their body, and then we work on what’s coming up for them in the present moment. They may have called me for any number of reasons you know, they may have called because they weren’t getting their goals or they were having a fight with their significant other or they’re struggling with their relationship with their child or whatever reason it was.
Andrea: And so we then work on what is actually happening in the present moment and it’s amazing. It’s transformational and it’s completely different than normal talk therapy and the differences that talk therapy allows you to get something off your chest and create an awareness where when you come and do the work with the horses, it’s transformational. You get instantaneous feedback from the horse. You don’t have to go out into the real world and see if it actually works. The horses pick up on what is actually your truth and when you’re speaking your truth. So I actually call them a lie detector. And so you are able to express what’s going on from a conscious mind, however, the horses allow you to get to the unconscious mind and really discover what it is that is holding you back from the things you want. What is the trauma that’s keeping you from having the things you want, what is causing you to be triggered? And we heal that unfinished business or trauma. And it allows you to then move and close that chapter of your life.
Kathy: Okay. And so how does the horse manage? I read that they have healing abilities and I didn’t quite understand that it. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Andrea: Yeah. So the horses are healing in an oven themselves. I don’t know if you’ve ever had the ability to experience being around a horse or not. However you can just watch people go up to a horse or be by a horse and see how they soften and change. And that’s just being in their presence. So the horses have four feet, they don’t wear shoes, they’re connected to mother earth. They’re very grounded and center and they’re constantly aware of their surroundings because there are prey animal, so they have to be in the present moment, unlike us human beings who are not, and I really should say us human doings because we’re really not most of the time human human beings. We’re Human doings and so we’re not in the present moment. If it wasn’t for the fact that our body automatically breezed when it needed oxygen in our heartbeat without us thinking about it, you’d see people falling over dead all the time because people are so attached to cell phones and calendars and emails were such an instant gratification, microwave society these days that were so out of touch and not connected to our bodies.
Andrea: So that’s the first thing they do is bring us back into the present and like I said, they have no attachment or outcome to what’s going on. You know, horses typically, unless they’re abused, don’t care that you’re 10 minutes late for bringing hay. Like, they’re not looking at their watch going, She was 10 minutes late yesterday. Boys, do you think she’s going to be 10 minutes late today? Again, well there she is, 10 minutes late and hold the grudge, right. Or, say, tomorrow should we bet? You know, like tomorrow you’re going to be late with hay you right. They don’t care. All they care is that you showed up and you have food. Now obviously, like I said, if they were getting starved or somewhat abused, there would be issues around the food situation. However, because they don’t care, they’re such in the present moment. They’re not paying attention to whether you’re five minutes late or 10 minutes late. So the horse is ultimately then attracted to your truth.
Andrea: So let me give you a dumbed down version. I have somebody in the round pen and I say, what color is your shirt? And they have on a black shirt and they tell me their shirt is white. That is not going to be in alignment and everything has a vibration, a word, whatever is being spoken, puts off a vibration and so that would not be in alignment with who they and therefore the horse would not be attracted to that. Now, if they said I have on a black shirt, the horse would want to join up with that because that would be in concurrence or in alignment with who they are and what is going on with them. Same thing if I said, do you have a great relationship or what’s your relationship like with your spouse? And if they’re lying to themselves or consciousy they believe potentially there’s no problem,
Andrea: that’s what they’re going to say. However the horse is not going to join up with that and so the horse gives them instantaneous feedback. So if in their conscious mind they believe that everything is fine with the relationship and I see that the horse is not responding to that. My first response to the individual is, okay, what are you thinking? What are you feeling and what’s coming up for you in the present moment and what do you think the horse is wanting to tell you? And it’s amazing the answers that people come up with, right? Because my job as a coach and what the. The horses than I do co actively is literally a hold a mirror up for the individual to see the reflection and discover what’s inside. I firmly believe that my clients hold the answers to whatever situation is going on in their life or whatever answers they’re seeking in that moment or any moment of their life.
Andrea: Because what happens is is our conscious mind gets in the way of what our subconscious mind already knows. You know, I have an example of somebody calling me the other day. They’re in this relationship or what they believe, maybe this relationship and their guts telling them one thing and his head is wanting to override it, and I said to him, you already have the answer. You’ve told me the answer at least three times on this phone call. Yet your head is wanting to override that in your wanting either me to tell you it’s okay with what your head is saying or you’re wanting to rationalize it and get me on board. And I said, I’m not going to do it. I said, if that’s what you want to do. I said, it’s not right or wrong. It just is, however you already know what the answer is and you’ve said it, you’re choosing to ignore it. So therefore when you get the consequences, if they shake out in your favor, great, and if they don’t, you don’t get to go back and go, I don’t understand, I didn’t realize because you already knew the answer and you’re wanting to override what your gut is telling you. I said, Steve, what your gut tells you it does not lie your head and your heart will lie to you. I said, because they’re attempting to protect you. I said, your gut will not lie you.
Kathy: You know that’s so common, right? We know what we should be doing. This inner conflict happens. I can see that how that happens a lot and reading up on other students’ or coaches’ experiences. I just thought that was so fascinating that a horse would have any interest at all in the human once they shifted and started being authentic with their, say, coach or what they’re saying to themselves and to others.
Andrea: Oh yeah, they’re so in tune. Like I said, because they’re connected to source at all times. They have feet on the ground so they’re connected to mother earth and because there’s no judgment, ego involved, they’re connected to the universe as well. And so, you know, the horses for me are just as much a partner and coactive in the process with the client, if not more so. So I’m watching the horse as much as I’m watching the client because the horse is feeding me just as much information, if not more than what’s coming out of the mouth of the client. So the horse is responding to what’s going on in the arena. And all my horses have different personalities just like human beings do. So some of my horses are more extroverted than introverted. Uh, I have, Dash, my big black mare. She reminds me of black beauty.
Andrea: She is a chackra worker. So the minute somebody gets in the round pen, she starts balancing them and getting their chackras in alignment. Bugs is, you know, 17 plus hands. He’s huge. However, he’s my gentle giant. He is able to hold space and just love up on you and heal whatever is hurt or broken in the moment. My mare, Lady, she has the softest, gentlest, most loving disposition and she is also a big heart healer and will love up on you and hold space for you. I have a horse that I have used in the past named Justice, and he is a horse that’s been rescued. And he too is a great pantomimer. However, he is able to get the clients to figure out what’s going on based on his actions. I have a, had a meetup group that I started last spring and you know, now we’re in hiatus because the weather’s a little colder and the days are shorter. However, he um, had a client in the round pen and he is not normally a lippy horse and he was continuing to pick at this lady, and
Kathy: Really, you mean like nip her?
Andrea: He wasn’t biting her, yet he was definitely taking his lips and pulling on her. Her sweatshirt, hood of her sweatshirt, the arms of her sweatshirt. I’m down by her hands. Like I said, he wasn’t biting her, yet he was definitely lipping her and pulling at her. And I said to her, what’s coming up for you? And what are you feeling and has this felt familiar before? And she just could not place it and he would not stop. And I said, okay, well this is not normal behavior of my horse. I said, so something’s going on. And like I said, this went on for a little while. She would be able to talk, he might stop, however he would immediately go back to this. And I said, he is attempting to tell me something and he’s wanting you to figure it out. And clearly you’re either not in a space that you can figure it out or you’re blocking it or something’s going on.
Andrea: However he is telling you something. Yeah. And her girlfriend was in the audience and she finally got my attention and she said, can I say something? And I said, absolutely. And she said, this is exactly what her son did to her. Now her son had committed suicide about a year and a half before that. He had overdosed and he was a drug addict. And she said, this is exactly what he would do. He would come to the house and he would pick and pick and pick and so she got so mad and gave him money to go get high or paid for his rent or whatever it was. However, this is what he did and the minute she acknowledged and understood what was going on and you know, Justice was attempting to get her attention about her son, he stopped. And she was able to finish the session and have a release in and close that chapter and move on and so it’s things like that that happened with the horses and like I said, they all have different personalities and show up differently and I’ve never picked a wrong horse for the client.
Kathy: Okay. That was gonna be my next question is that you select a horse based on what the person is trying to focus on in your initial consultation? Or is it just a sense of feeling once that person gets there?
Andrea: Actually I picked the horse before the client ever gets there. I go out to the pasture and I just intuitively know who is the perfect horse. They show up. They know who’s coming already and I grab my horse and like I said, it’s never steered me wrong.
Kathy: I also read that the horses and I don’t know if it’s just calling it right, but that they absorb negative energy from the person and then they do something called leaching. Can you tell us how that works and what’s happening at that point?
Andrea: Sure, so we call it leaching. In my world, what it looks like is the horse is attempting to yawn. so when the horse is pulling energy from whoever is in its presence, it will grab it, basically download it and expel it through their body and when they’re expelling it, it looks like they’re yawning or almost throwing up. Now horses are not able to throw up, but like I said, it looks like they’re having a big yawn and typically when there is a big piece of work that’s going on with the client, the horse is doing a lot of leaching. Pulling that off the client and a lot of times clients will be worried about how is that going to affect the horse and especially when there has been something traumatic that’s happened. Let’s say I have somebody who is dealing with being sexually assaulted and they’ve done a piece of work around that and they have to release that. Ultimately the horses expel that energy and let that go and like I said, because they’re such in the present moment, they don’t hold onto anything. So what happened five minutes ago, five seconds ago is not relevant or applicable to what is happening right now in the moment or what’s going to happen five minutes from now.
Kathy: I just thought that was so incredible that the horses could do that.
Andrea: I think people experience if they have animals, the unconditional love, you know, I could go on and on of the stories that have happened in the presence of the horse and you know, I just have a new book that was released that has bunches of stories from 15 authors that talk about their experience and how the horses have helped people heal.
Kathy: And they’re fantastic stories for sure. So let’s go back in time a little bit. I understand you used to be a very successful criminal defense attorney. Yes. So how did that career transition come about?
Andrea: So I was in the middle of a five day jury trial when my 18 month old puppy passed away and I ultimately said, what am I killing myself for because at the end of the day, my clients don’t care about me. They only care if I’m keeping them out of jail. And most of the time it’s a struggle to even get them to pay their bill, let alone care about anybody else other than themselves. And so at the end of the trial I said, you know what? I’m going to take a break and step away from this and just play for the summer. And I hung out with my nephew and I went to the amusement parks and the pools and we just had a really good time and when the summer came to an end I said, oh, I don’t want to go. Like, what
Andrea: am I going to do with my life? Because this is the only thing I had ever known or wanted to do. I had always known when I graduated from high school where I was going to go to college, the degree I was going to get, all of that stuff, and this is the first time in my life where I had no clue. It was like my life had an open, open slate and I could do anything. Yet I had no clue. And so I really went on a soul searching journey at that point in time for three years and during that three year process I also was getting physically ill and as the time went on, my physical illness kept becoming more prominent and stronger and made me more physically ill. And so during this process I had discovered a person who did horse work and I went and did some work with her and I said, wow, this is amazing.
Andrea: Like I was able to get back into my body and my heart rate changed and my breathing pattern changed. And I felt so grounded and centered and at peace. When I was with her I said, wow, this is amazing. And so I said, I think this is what I want to do with my life or when I grow up. And so I started searching out, you know, modalities and places that offered this kind of training and I ultimately settled on. Melissa Pierce was Touched by a Horse program. I just felt like she came from such a place of abundance. She was going to give you a turnkey business when you were done and you were going to do your own work. This wasn’t an event where you went and took a weekend course and they gave you a certificate and said, hey, you can go do this work.
Andrea: I literally was in a training program for almost two years, you know, and our program requires us to continue with continuing education credits. And so I, I really enjoyed what she offered. She came from a place of, like I said, abundance. And it just felt very good. The fit felt really good. I graduated from her program and I was about to go into my second intensive training when I found out I had the brain tumor. And I vowed at that point in time that if I survived and it wasn’t cancer, that I was really going to do something different with my life. Clearly in that three years, my body was telling me, you got to go and I didn’t pay attention to the pebble or the stone. I had to get the two by four upside the head. And so once I got that news, I was like, okay, I got it. I got it loud and clear. I hear you. I’ve downloaded, we’re going to make a change. I completed the certification program and it’s been a little bit of a process to leave my practice because I unfortunately have bills and need to eat. However we are officially on the downward slide. I have one client left. They’ll go to trial in the spring sometime and that will be officially my last client and this will be what I am doing for the future.
Kathy: Well, congratulations on your transition.
Andrea: Thank you.
Kathy: In the section of the book that you contributed, that you wrote, you also included that you, you were going through a lot personally for a long time while you were a lawyer. Do you mind sharing what that was?
Andrea: Sure. So I was very driven type A personality and you know, I was going to make stuff happen and if stuff wasn’t happening quick enough in my life I was going to figure out a way to make it happen and you know, I talk a lot about being in control or the illusion of being in control and one of the things I wanted to make happen was to have a baby and wasn’t married. I just hadn’t found the right man and I was bound and determined to have a child on my own and I really struggled with do I do this as a single person or I’m not. And then I ultimately made the decision that I was going to do it on my own and we started a fertility process. I talk about my best friends and I getting together and picking the donor and what that process look like.
Andrea: And ultimately that was part of that three year journey that I was on. Between deciding if I was going to leave my practice,iIt was also deciding if I was going to be a mother and the let down of not becoming a mother and then the brain tumor and getting back on, okay, do I want to do this again and can I afford this and where do I go? And then ultimately, you know, having the healing with Jack in Montana and really letting or surrendering to the dream of becoming a mother and knowing that somebody much bigger than me is in control and is allowing this process to happen. Whether I like it the way it is or not and I have to surrender to the plan and trust that it will happen if it’s supposed to happen and that this is the first time really in my life that I have not been okay, I gotta make it happen and why isn’t it happening.
Andrea: I’ve been married a little over a year and you know, we’re still in the process of doing that and seeing if it will happen and it may or may not. Yet for me, the process that I had and the healing that happened with Jack in Montana, which is the story I tell in the book was huge for me and life changing. I don’t think if that had not happened and I had not healed that, I probably would not be as sane as I am with the process because anybody who has struggled with fertility knows that it’s an emotional rollercoaster. First of all, the woman looks at themselves and it’s like, why me? Or especially if you’re doing it with somebody you love and care about, then it’s maybe their fault and why isn’t this happening and what’s wrong and you just have a real hard time with wrapping your head around that process first of all, and then they amp you up on all kinds of drugs that cause you to turn into a 16 year old raging lunatic.
Andrea: You know, Then there’s like no process to grieve. You get your menstrual cycle and you start counting, then you take pills and you’re crazy, and then the day it happens, the insemination process happens. Then you have two weeks to hope and pray and you don’t want to get too excited because you could be let down into weeks yet you still want to hold the space that it’s going to happen and then at the end of the two weeks you’re disappointed and you get right back on the hamster wheel of, okay, now we’re counting and then it’s pills. There’s no process of really grieving and allowing unless you stop. And most times that doesn’t happen. You know, people are on an agenda if you will, and a timeframe. And so it’s attempting to beat the clock and it’s a money game and there’s so much stress that’s around that. And you know, people who are around you don’t know what to say.
Andrea: I was asked Or said numerous times. Have you thought about adoption? Have you thought about being a foster parent? Uh, no, that thought never crossed my mind. And you just really want to punch somebody in the face every time they say something like that to you and everybody around you is getting pregnant and having a baby and telling you, oh my God, you know, every time my husband looked at me, I got pregnant and I was like, really? That physically did not happen first of all. And second of all, you would have 10 kids if that was the case and you have three. so you know, people don’t really understand what’s going on behind closed doors and it’s happening more and more frequently and the cost is absolutely insane and outrageous and banks aren’t handing out money to have a baby.
Kathy: That’s true. That’s true. Getting back to [inaudible] from reading your excerpt about your experience with the coach and Jack, the horse, it sounded like the scenario was they were practicing this gestalt coaching method on you.
Andrea: I was at one of my deep trainings. Yes. Okay. Okay. And actually I was with my mentor. She was the one that was processing this piece of work with.
Kathy: Okay, from what you described in the book, it just looked like a beautiful moment. And it seemed like a very pivotal moment. What would you say was the biggest lesson you learned for yourself since having your brain injury and then starting working with horses?
Andrea: Well, I think the biggest thing for me is staying in the present moment. We typically, and for me I was very good about not being here, today. I was focused on what had happened in the past, how I can fix that or I was focused on whatever the stress was two days from now and how is that going to be fixed or how can that be changed or what do we need to do to make it be perfect?
Andrea: Right? It was not living in the present moment in doing what is happening right here and right now and enjoying that. I was very good at being super busy, checking things off a list and doing and not necessarily enjoying them. So it didn’t matter how rewarding the goal was. It was always a task and I just checked it off. Oh, you reached that goal? Great. Next. There was no like enjoyment or excitement and so that is definitely one of the things that the horses have taught me is to really be in the present moment and enjoy what’s happening to me right here and right now and know that yes, it’s somewhat matters what you do, yet you aren’t able to worry about what’s gonna happen in the future and you’re not able to change what happened in the past. Can you do something different so that what happened in the past doesn’t happen again? Absolutely. However, we as individuals and society just do not stay in the present moment. My husband is my fun. He drags me from the side of having a task and a list and having everything all put together to the fun. My husband’s like, oh squirrel, and off we go. So we’re a good balance for each other.
Kathy: Yeah. It sounds like you guys are your yin and yang. Andrea, winding down here, is there anything you’d like to share with listeners that perhaps we haven’t talked about? Maybe perhaps something words of inspiration or encouragement if they’re going through something or they’re struggling with a challenge or dilemma.
Andrea: Yeah, so I guess the biggest thing I would have people focus on is you know the answers and if you can just get quiet. For Women, it’s a lot of times listening to their intuition, men, it’s their gut. However, it depends on how it shows up for the individual. It may be a sign they may see something that they haven’t seen in a long time or something maybe repeating as a pattern, right? Like let’s say they see, you know, 1:11 on a clock or four fours, three threes, two twos, whatever it is or something is constantly getting their attention.
Andrea: They think of Susie and the phone rings and it’s Susie saying, hey, I was thinking about you to really listen and follow the bread crumbs. We, poo poo our intuition. And I think if people look back at their children, if they have them or their childhood children are very connected to the other side. You know, I remember, um, as a young child, my brother had a friend and my mom always said, there’s no one here, you don’t have a friend. And he was like, yeah, my friend. My friend is right here. And my brother was clearly connected to someone on the other side and they were present yet obviously we weren’t able to see them. Yet, I think a lot of times children have that more and it gets poopooed, so then people shut it down and they tend not to listen to it. And you know, as I stated earlier in this conversation, you know, I had a gentleman who called me in.
Andrea: His gut was telling him one thing and his head was wanting to override that. So I think the more that you can tune into that and be in a quiet place, you don’t necessarily have to sit and meditate on a pillow and all that good stuff. However, if you can just get away from the cell phone, the computer, the calendar, and just go be in nature. If you have the ability to be in nature where it’s warm, take your shoes off and really feel your feet on the ground. It’s amazing the connection you will have and the answers that you will get. If you could just get quiet, even for five minutes and just be quiet and get out of your head, the answers will appear. And so I think that’s the biggest thing I have for people and to let go of control. We’re not in control. There is a plan before we ever hit our feet on this ground is to potentially what our life is gonna look like and so the more people can be in the present moment and enjoy what’s happening here in the now and not worrying about the past or the future, the better off they’re going to be.
Kathy: the better off. So get out of your head, be in the present and we already know the answers.
Andrea: That’s right. Absolutely.
Kathy: Okay, great. Well, if there’s anyone out there who has more questions for you or wants to inquire about your services, how can they get ahold of you?
Andrea: Sure. I offer a free 30 minute exploratory sessions for us to talk about what they’re needing and wanting and what they’re looking for in a coach. And I create typically custom packages for individuals because sometimes that may or may not include horses. Not Everybody is located in Colorado and I can coach with anybody anywhere in the world. So, uh, like I said, we create packages because sometimes you know, 90 days is enough for the goal that they’re wanting to set. They may need in six months or nine months or something of that nature. However, they can go to my website at www.witherswhisper.com and they can schedule that free 30 minute exploratory session with me. All my books are on the website. They can sign up for free, daily whispers. I send inspirational messages out daily. There’s great articles on there, lots of freebies and downloadables. So go check it out.
Kathy: Okay, great. So witherswhisper.com.
Andrea: Yes ma’am.
Kathy: Alright. Wonderful. Andrea, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your story and all the wonderful things that you’re doing with your coaching and with the horses and helping others. That’s just wonderful. Thank you so much.
Andrea: Thank you for having me. Kathy.
An important reminder every day of the year!
Yes, indeed!